In this lesson
Ben Verdery joins his former student Simon Powis for a wide-ranging conversation about teaching and learning the guitar. Stories about Fred Hand, Seymour Bernstein and his own students lead into a central concern: how to develop skill while keeping a personal, joyful relationship with music.
The interview is particularly welcoming to amateur musicians. Verdery values the commitment of people who make time for the instrument alongside the rest of life, and asks how practice can remain an act of discovery rather than an exercise in comparison.
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Originally published in 2015. These listening notes draw on the recorded conversation. Roles, projects, releases and event announcements refer to the time of recording. Practical reflections are suggested applications, not additional quotations from the guest.
Explore the conversation
Use these approximate timestamps to jump to a topic in the recording.
- 3:08 — Teaching develops through reflection, not performance ability alone
- 12:19 — A good teacher makes room for an individual musician
- 20:53 — Get to know the whole piece before polishing every detail
- 27:00 — Memorising notes and learning music are different tasks
- 30:51 — Protect attention and the pleasure of practice
- 36:03 — A supportive community gives performance a place to develop
- 47:08 — Creativity can help a musician discover a direction
- 63:50 — Keep returning to the music that moves you
Teaching develops through reflection, not performance ability alone
Verdery speaks frankly about his early teaching. Without much formal preparation in pedagogy, he sometimes assigned music that was too difficult because both he and the student were enthusiastic about it.
Over time, colleagues, methods and experience helped him build a more useful range of material. He remembers the value of simple duets in which a beginner could play open strings while the teacher supplied an accompaniment: even the first steps could feel like real music.
The lesson for a learner is to choose work that offers a clear next step. Admiring a piece is a good reason to keep it as a goal, but the route towards it may involve smaller pieces and carefully selected skills. Satisfaction and challenge can coexist without every assignment being a struggle.
A good teacher makes room for an individual musician
Verdery recalls teachers who recognised his interests and allowed him to explore. Fred Hand offered repertoire and guidance while leaving room for the person in front of him. That experience influenced the way Verdery later worked with his own students.
Study with pianist Seymour Bernstein brought another important perspective: detailed attention to phrasing, emotional meaning and the experience of learning. The influence extended beyond a particular instrument or technical school.
A productive lesson can therefore ask two kinds of question. What needs to improve in the playing, and what is drawing this person towards the music? The answer to the second question can give the first one energy and direction.
Get to know the whole piece before polishing every detail
“You can analyze it your own way.”
— Ben Verdery, 23:44
Verdery describes exploring the top line and bass separately, even when reading is imperfect. Early impressions of colour, shape or character can be marked down and developed as the piece becomes familiar.
This approach gives musical intuition a place at the start. It does not remove the later work of choosing fingerings and correcting errors. Instead, a clearer idea of the phrase can help determine which technical solution is appropriate.
He also makes analysis approachable. Recognising a new section, a change of texture or a pattern of activity is already a way of understanding the piece. Technical vocabulary can deepen that understanding, but a learner need not wait for advanced theory before noticing how the music is organised.
Memorising notes and learning music are different tasks
The conversation questions the rush to memorise or prepare a piece for a deadline before its musical possibilities have been explored. Verdery hears students announce that something is memorised and asks whether it has also been learned in a deeper sense.
The distinction concerns understanding and expression. Can you hear where a phrase is going, why a colour changes or how a passage belongs to the larger piece? Those questions remain even when the fingers can reproduce the notes without a score.
A useful check is to describe one section in words before playing it. If you can only describe the finger movements, spend a little time with its musical relationships. The goal is to give memory something meaningful to support.
Protect attention and the pleasure of practice
“You can’t be someone else and you can’t be where you are not.”
— Ben Verdery, 33:49
Verdery suggests noticing where the mind is during practice. Ordinary reminders can interrupt a session; writing them down allows the player to return to the task instead of rehearsing the reminder mentally.
He also speaks about accepting where you are while continuing to want improvement. Another player can inspire you without becoming the only acceptable measure of success. A musical life has room for different abilities, circumstances and ambitions.
For an adult learner, the practical application is to define a worthwhile task for the time available. A carefully heard phrase can be a real achievement. Connect the task to the music you value, so progress retains a purpose beyond keeping up with someone else.
A supportive community gives performance a place to develop
Verdery describes the family atmosphere that inspired his Maui class, drawing on his experience of Paco Peña’s festival in Córdoba. Shared meals, conversation and a beautiful setting sat alongside serious study.
Performance was central. Participants had repeated opportunities to play, and the experience brought together amateurs, students and professionals. The account shows how an encouraging environment can support demanding musical work.
The wider principle applies to a local group or online community too. Regular, supportive occasions to play make performance part of learning. The value lies in both the preparation and the chance to discover how the music feels when another person is listening.
Creativity can help a musician discover a direction
In discussing advanced study, Verdery asks what excites each student and what they have already experienced. His examples include different styles, instruments and ensemble partnerships, rather than a single definition of a successful career.
Composition is part of that exploration. He describes asking students to write an étude, with the possibility of another person playing it. The task raises questions about a technical weakness, musical invention and how clearly notation communicates an intention.
A modest version is available at any level: invent a short exercise that makes one difficulty musically interesting. Give it a rhythm, a shape and an ending. Even a few bars can help you understand the choices involved in the pieces you study.
Keep returning to the music that moves you
The interview closes with Verdery recalling a Randy Newman concert. What stayed with him was the emotional range and depth communicated through relatively short songs, and the example of an artist continuing to create.
That account brings the conversation back to listening. An inspiring performance can renew a musician’s sense of what is possible and why the work matters.
For your next listening session, choose something for its expressive effect rather than its technical difficulty. Notice what draws you in, then bring one question from that experience back to your own music.
Ideas to take into your own music
These prompts are reflections on the conversation, rather than a routine prescribed by the guest.
- Explore before polishing: read a melody and bass separately to discover the shape of a piece.
- Write down a musical idea: keep an early impression of character or colour in the score.
- Give practice a purpose: choose one musical task and put unrelated reminders aside.
- Try a miniature étude: turn a technical challenge into a few bars of music.
- Make room for inspiration: listen to a performance that reconnects you with why you play.
Original episode notes and resources
The original introduction and resources are retained below. Any time-sensitive announcements belong to the episode’s publication period.
Benjamin Verdery is a virtuoso guitarist, composer and teacher. In this interview we discuss many ideas about teaching and learning classical guitar including:
- First steps as a teacher
- Semour Bernstein
- Fred Hand
- Yale University
- Ben’s interviews from the 92nd Street Y
Simon – great interview felt like I was sitting right there. There was a brief disconnect about 3/4 way thru but didn’t take away anything. Ben’s personality & insight really came thru.
JP
Thanks for this pod cast Simon. They help me a lot to stay motivated. It’s like having more CGC company throughout the day.